Callback
Club Terms of Service
These Club Terms of Service (the "Terms") are an agreement between McKerin Software, Inc. ("Callback", "we", "us") and the sports club or organization ("you", "your club") that creates a Callback account. Callback is a service for sports clubs, sold as separate modules (Section 1), with a web dashboard and a companion iOS app. By creating an account, starting a module, subscribing, or using the service, the person accepting on the club's behalf represents that they are authorized to bind the club, and the club agrees to these Terms.
Parents, guardians, and adult players who use Callback to register with your club, book its lessons, or pay it do so under separate Family Terms of Use between them and Callback. They are not parties to these Terms, and "you" in these Terms always means your club.
1. The service
Callback is sold as separate modules on one Callback account for your club. Your club uses the modules it has started or subscribed to (Section 3):
- Tryouts runs player tryouts, as described in the next paragraph.
- Leagues runs league seasons: teams, schedules, scores entered by the club's administrators and scorekeepers, and a public league site with the club's schedules, teams, and standings.
- Lessons runs a club's lesson program: coaches offer the times they can coach, the club publishes a lesson calendar, and families book lessons and pay the club for them.
- Registrations lets a club publish its programs (such as tryouts, camps, clinics, and leagues) and take registrations, signed waivers, and card payments for them from families (Section 5A).
Tryouts helps a club run player tryouts: import a registration list, rate athletes on the club's own skill categories and rating scale (within the ranges Callback offers), and produce rankings, coverage, court placement, and offer tracking. Evaluators capture ratings on the iOS app (including offline, syncing when a connection returns), and administrators manage the tryout from the web dashboard. We may add, change, or remove features as the product evolves.
Use of the Callback iOS application is also subject to Apple's App Store terms and any additional terms Apple requires.
2. Accounts and roles
Your club's account is set up through Callback's club sign-up or by Callback, and your club's administrators invite its other users (such as evaluators, coaches, scorekeepers, and other administrators) or give a role to someone who already has a Callback account. Your club is responsible for its users: keeping their credentials private, ensuring they use the service only for the club's own activities, and removing access when a person leaves. You are responsible for activity that occurs under your club's accounts. Tell us promptly at support@mckerinsoftware.com if you believe an account has been compromised.
Families use their own family accounts under the Family Terms of Use. A family account sees the players, households, registrations, and bookings it has been given access to, and what other families choose to share with it. It does not give access to your club's evaluations or administration unless your club gives the same account a staff role.
3. Subscriptions, trials, and billing
Callback is sold per module, and each module is priced on its own. Tryouts and Leagues are annual subscriptions; Lessons is billed monthly for the lessons your club completes; Registrations has no subscription, and Callback takes a fee from each paid registration (Section 5A). Prices are described on our pricing page; the price that applies is the one shown when your club starts or subscribes to a module, unless an order form or other written agreement with your club sets a different price.
Tryouts and Leagues. Each is an annual per-club subscription, billed in advance for the annual term, except as described below. Tryouts tiers are based on the number of athletes; the price and athlete limit that apply are those shown when you subscribe. Leagues has one annual price, and a lower add-on price when Leagues is bought at the same time as Tryouts or added to a subscription that already includes Tryouts. Adding Tryouts later does not change the Leagues price. If Tryouts is later removed from that subscription, we may charge the standalone Leagues price from the next renewal. Discounts (such as a founding-club rate) may apply where we offer them. The founding-club discount applies to Tryouts only, and not to the Small Club tier; it does not apply to Leagues or Lessons.
Your club normally has one subscription, which carries each subscription module it pays for. A module added during a term (for example, Leagues added to a Tryouts subscription) starts when it is added and renews on the same date as the rest of the subscription. For the rest of the current term it is charged pro rata, and that amount is added to the subscription's next invoice, which is normally the renewal invoice.
A club may start Tryouts and Leagues each with one free trial (currently 30 days; each trial may be extended to cover your club's last tryout or league date plus 14 days, up to 120 days from that module's start (for Tryouts, counted from your club's sign-up); a Tryouts trial has a limited number of athletes) to evaluate the module before paying; trial limits and length may change and are described at signup. When a trial ends without a subscription, that module is turned off: your club's users can no longer use it, and for Leagues, your club's public league site no longer shows your leagues. Turning a module off does not delete its data. We keep it, so that it is there if your club subscribes later, until your club asks us to delete it, or until it is deleted as Section 11 describes.
Subscriptions renew automatically at the end of each annual term for a further one-year term at the then-current price of each module on the subscription (for Tryouts, the price for your tier), unless your club cancels before the renewal date. Your club may cancel at any time through the billing portal; cancellation takes effect at the end of the then-current paid term, and the subscription, with every module on it, will not renew. To end one subscription module and keep the other, contact us before the renewal date. We will send a reminder notice to your club's billing contact approximately 30 days before each renewal.
Lessons. Lessons has no subscription, no term, and no monthly minimum. Your club is charged for each lesson completed through Lessons (a lesson is completed when its coach marks it complete, or when Lessons closes it, about two hours after it ends). The charge is per lesson, not per player or booking. It is a percentage of what the lesson's payments leave after Stripe's fees and any court rental, with a minimum amount per lesson, at the rate shown when your club starts Lessons or agreed with your club in writing. A lesson's charge uses the payments recorded by the time its month is billed. A payment recorded later is not counted. A club that starts Lessons itself is charged the per-lesson amount on our pricing page (currently $5 a lesson) once your club has set its coach and club split. A lesson completed before then is charged only if its charge is worked out again before its month is billed. This applies unless an order form or other written agreement with your club sets a different rate or arrangement (such as a different percentage or a monthly amount), which then applies instead. A lesson is not charged if it is cancelled or if no payment was collected for it. A booked player who does not show up does not, by that alone, change the charge for a lesson that goes ahead. The charge for a lesson is never more than what is left of the payments collected for it after Stripe's fees, any court rental, and the coach's share.
Lessons charges are invoiced in the first days of each month for the completed lessons that started in the month before (in your club's time zone); a month already invoiced is not invoiced again. The invoice is charged to the default card on your club's billing account with us (a card saved in Lessons settings, or one your club made its default in the billing portal) or, if there is none, emailed to your club's billing contact for payment within 15 days. Your club authorizes us to charge Lessons invoices to that card. We will give your club at least 30 days' notice by email before changing its Lessons rate. A new rate applies to any lesson whose charge is worked out after the change takes effect. A month that comes to less than 50 cents is carried into the next invoice. If your club believes a Lessons charge is wrong (for example, a lesson that was cancelled or refunded after it was invoiced), tell us at support@mckerinsoftware.com within 30 days of the invoice date; we will review it and credit any amount charged in error. After those 30 days the invoice is final. Payments families make for lessons go to your club's own Stripe account, and Callback takes no fee from them.
Payments are processed by our payment provider, Stripe; we do not store full card numbers. Unless a written agreement says otherwise, Tryouts and Leagues fees are non-refundable except where required by law. You are responsible for all applicable taxes. We will give reasonable notice before any change to subscription pricing that would affect your renewal.
4. Your club's content and data
The content your club creates in Callback, such as the skill categories and scale it defines; the ratings, notes, rankings, and offers its evaluators and administrators create; its league seasons, schedules, and results; its programs, questions, and waiver texts; and its lessons, belongs to your club. We do not claim ownership of it. Personal information about players, families, and your club's users is covered by Section 5 and Annex A: your club is responsible for it and Callback processes it on your club's behalf. You grant Callback a limited, non-exclusive, worldwide license to host, process, transmit, display, and otherwise use the data you submit solely as necessary to provide, maintain, and support the Service to you, and as otherwise described in these Terms and our Privacy Policy.
We process it to provide and support the service to you, on your instructions, as this section and Annex A describe.
- Your club's data is kept private to your organization, except what Callback publishes for your club: its program pages, its public league site, and its lesson calendar (public while the Lessons module is on for your club), which shows booked players' first names and last initials (the privacy policy lists what each shows). We do not mix one club's data with another's, except to show totals across clubs with no names (such as the number of athletes evaluated) on our website.
- We do not sell your data, show ads, or use third-party advertising trackers.
- Within your club, an evaluator sees their own ratings and notes, everyone's measurements, summaries of earlier seasons' ratings, and team names and offer statuses; administrators see the club's full tryout.
- You can export your rankings and offers while Tryouts is on for your club (including during a trial), and your registrations while Registrations is on.
How we handle personal information is described in our privacy policy. We use service providers (such as our cloud host and payment processor) to run the service; we use them to provide their services to us (Annex A lists them).
5. Player, family, and minor information
Personal information about players, households, and guardians that is entered for your club, whether your club's users enter or import it or families enter it through Registrations or Lessons, and including information about minors, is your club's responsibility. Your club decides why it is collected and how it is used (the "controller"), and Callback processes it on your club's behalf, as your service provider, to provide the service to your club, under Annex A. The same applies to your registrations, waiver signatures, bookings, and payment records.
The family account is different. A family's sign-in account (its email address, name, phone number, and password; its acceptance of the Family Terms of Use and the Privacy Policy; and its link to the households and players it can see at each club that uses Callback) is held by Callback as its own data, under the Family Terms of Use and the Privacy Policy, because no single club controls it.
Your club is responsible for collecting the information it enters or imports lawfully and for having the parental or guardian consent and the rights needed to provide it to us and to have us process it on your behalf. When families enter information through Callback for your club, Callback collects it on your club's behalf, and your club remains responsible for it. Callback offers families an optional medical notes field for each player; your club is responsible for any consent the law requires for that information and for how your club's users use it. The service is not directed to children. We process minors' information only as your service provider and delete it at your direction, as described in Section 11, Annex A, and the privacy policy.
5A. Taking registrations and lesson payments
This section applies when your club uses Registrations or takes payments for lessons through Callback.
- Your club is the seller. Your club sells its programs and lessons to families. Each family payment is charged on your club's own Stripe account, connected to Callback, and the payment goes to your club, less Callback's fee (for registrations) and Stripe's fees. Your club is responsible for its Stripe account and its agreement with Stripe, for the charges, refunds, and disputes on that account, and for the taxes on its sales.
- Your club's programs. Your club runs its programs and lessons; sets their prices, eligibility, places, and rules; and is responsible for them and for what it tells families about them.
- Waivers. Your club writes its waivers and is responsible for them, including whether they are suitable and enforceable for your club's participants. Callback provides the tool for signing them and keeps a record of each signature, as described in the privacy policy. Callback does not draft or review waivers and makes no representation about their enforceability. For a player whose recorded date of birth shows they are 18 or older, the waiver is signed by the player: on the form by a person registering who confirms they are the player, or from a link emailed to the player's own address. Callback does not verify that confirmation. A registration waiting for the player's signature holds its place until a deadline shown on the registration, and cannot be paid until the player signs. You can send the signing link again or release the registration; you cannot sign for the player. A waiver signed for a team by one person may not bind the team's individual players; your club decides whether each participant must sign. Deleting a player or household deletes its waiver signatures, so export any records your club needs to keep first.
- Refunds. Your club decides cancellations and refunds and is responsible for its refund policy and for telling families about it. Callback refunds a family on its own only where the service does so, for registrations: a payment that completes when the registration can no longer have its place, a second payment for the same registration, a payment for a registration that was deleted, and a payment made on a Stripe account that is no longer connected to Callback for that club. Your club authorizes Callback to make those refunds on your club's Stripe account. If one cannot be made, Callback tells your club, and your club makes the refund; for a payment on a Stripe account that is no longer connected to any club, Callback tells its own staff instead. For lessons, Callback refunds on its own only a card payment that cannot buy what it paid for (a place that cannot be given, a place the player already holds, or a package that cannot be credited), and a payment for a family whose Lessons data is being deleted or was deleted (while or after your club's whole Lessons data is deleted, Callback's staff refund it); your club decides all other refunds. Your club authorizes Callback to make these refunds on your club's Stripe account too. If one cannot be made, the payment waits for your club's review.
- Lesson payments under review. Callback pauses its automatic handling of a lesson card payment when a refund or dispute on it needs a person: for example a refund made in your club's own Stripe dashboard, a bank dispute, a refund that did not go through, a cancellation on a payment that already had a refund, or a refund to the card beyond what the family is owed. Your club's administrators decide each paused payment in Callback: a refund to the card, lesson credit, taking back credit beyond what the family was owed, recording a settlement made outside Callback, leaving it as it is, or undoing an earlier decision that moved no money. Callback does not take back from a coach's pay a refund or a lost bank dispute that arrives after that lesson was included in a payroll run.
- The information your club asks for. Ask families only for the information your club needs for its programs and lessons, including in the questions your club adds to a program, and use it only for your club's activities. Do not ask for health information in your club's own questions; use the medical-notes field, which Callback keeps out of exports, rosters, and league lists. Your club is responsible for having the right to enter the information it enters about families and players.
- Callback's fee on registrations. Callback takes a fee from each paid registration: a percentage of the price with a minimum amount, but not more than the price, at the rate on our pricing page unless an order form or other written agreement with your club sets another. The fee is fixed when the family registers and is taken from the family's payment on your club's Stripe account when the family pays; it is not billed with any subscription. Free registrations carry no fee. Callback sets the rate, and how much of the fee is added into the price families pay (none, half, or all), as agreed with your club; your club's Registrations settings show both. Callback's registration pages show families one price, which includes any share of the fee added into it, and no separate fee.
- The fee on refunds and disputes. If your club refunds, through Callback, everything that remains of a payment, Callback returns its fee on the amount refunded. If your club refunds less than everything that remains, Callback returns none of its fee on that refund, and does not return it later even if further refunds bring the total refunded to the whole payment. When Callback refunds a payment on its own (above), the family gets back everything it paid and Callback returns its whole fee. A refund your club makes directly in its Stripe account does not return Callback's fee. On a payment your club loses in a dispute, Callback keeps its fee. Stripe does not return its own processing fee when a payment is refunded; your club bears it under its agreement with Stripe.
- Lesson payments. Callback takes no fee from the payments families make for lessons; Lessons is billed to your club as Section 3 describes.
6. Acceptable use
Use Callback only for your club's legitimate activities (such as its tryouts, leagues, and lessons). Do not attempt to access data you are not authorized to see, interfere with or disrupt the service, probe or breach its security, reverse-engineer it, resell or provide access to clubs other than your own, or use another club's or athlete's information outside the club activity it was provided for. Do not upload unlawful content or content you do not have the right to provide.
7. Intellectual property
Callback and its licensors own and retain all right, title, and interest in and to the Service, including all software, code, algorithms, user interfaces, designs, documentation, trademarks, service marks, and any improvements, enhancements, or derivative works. These Terms do not grant you any ownership rights in the Service.
Subject to your compliance with these Terms and payment of applicable fees (if any), we grant you a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable, non-sublicensable, revocable license to access and use the Service solely for your club's own activities during the term of your active subscription or trial, and for a module without a subscription (such as Lessons), while your club uses it.
You may not reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, or attempt to derive the source code of any part of the Service, or create derivative works based on the Service, except to the limited extent such restrictions are prohibited by applicable law.
8. Feedback
If you or any of your users provide Callback with any feedback, suggestions, ideas, or recommendations regarding the Service ("Feedback"), you grant Callback a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, fully paid-up license to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, and otherwise exploit such Feedback for any purpose, without any obligation, attribution, or compensation to you.
9. Availability, disclaimer, and limitation of liability
We work hard to keep Callback reliable, including offline capture so evaluations are not lost, but we do not guarantee uninterrupted or error-free availability, and we may perform maintenance from time to time. Except as expressly stated, the service is provided "as is" and "as available", without warranties of any kind, whether express or implied, including any implied warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, and non-infringement.
Evaluations and rankings are decision-support tools only; roster and selection decisions are solely your club's responsibility. Callback does not provide coaching, legal, medical, or any other professional advice.
Callback does not run your club's programs or lessons and is not responsible for them, for your club's waivers, or for your club's decisions about registrations, bookings, cancellations, or refunds. A payment dispute between a family and your club is between them.
To the fullest extent permitted by law, neither party is liable for indirect, incidental, special, consequential, or punitive damages, or for lost profits or data, arising out of or relating to the service. Our total liability arising out of or relating to these Terms or the service is limited to the amounts your club paid us for the service, including Callback's fees taken from registration payments, in the twelve months before the event giving rise to the claim, or $100 if greater. Some jurisdictions do not allow certain limitations, so some of these may not apply to you.
10. Indemnification
You agree to defend, indemnify, and hold harmless McKerin Software, Inc., and its officers, directors, employees, agents, and affiliates from and against any and all claims, damages, losses, liabilities, costs, and expenses (including reasonable attorneys' fees) arising out of or related to: (a) your club's data or content submitted to the Service; (b) your use of (or inability to use) the Service; (c) any decisions your club makes regarding athlete rankings, rosters, offers, or selections; (d) your failure to obtain any required parental or guardian consents or to comply with applicable laws (including privacy, data-protection, and youth-sports laws); (e) your breach of these Terms; or (f) your club's programs and lessons, its waivers, and its decisions about registrations, bookings, cancellations, and refunds, including claims brought by families.
11. Term, termination, and deletion
These Terms apply while your club uses the service. Your club may stop using Callback and cancel its subscription at any time; cancellation takes effect at the end of the current paid term. We may suspend or terminate access for non-payment or for a material breach of these Terms (such as misuse of the service or another party's data), with notice where practical.
Deleting families' data during the term. Your club's administrators can delete a player or a whole household in your club's Registrations area while Registrations is on; otherwise Callback does it on request. Callback can also do it at any time. At a club that uses Lessons, your club's administrators delete the family's Lessons data first, in your club's Lessons administration. Some deletions wait, for example while a payment is open, disputed, or owed a refund; the privacy policy explains when. Once a family's deletion in Callback has deleted anything, it is not cancelled. Callback deletes a family's account on request, as the privacy policy describes. Your club's administrators can remove a staff member's access; Callback deletes the staff account on request.
When your club leaves. Your club may ask us to delete its data at any time. Otherwise, 12 months after your club's account ends, Callback suspends your club's account (if it is not already suspended) and then deletes your club's data. Your club's account ends on the day it is closed or suspended or, if no module is on, on the later of that day and the day the last module was turned off. The deletion covers everything families entered for your club and the family accounts that were used with no other club. This does not apply to pilot and internal accounts, clubs we have marked as exempt, or clubs with a written agreement that says otherwise. Until then, your club's data is kept so that it is there if your club starts again. A whole-club deletion does not delete the accounts of your club's administrators, coaches, and scorekeepers, our own billing records of your club at Stripe, or our sales information about your club. Before we delete your club's data under this paragraph, we will email your club's administrators at least 30 days ahead. On request, we will reasonably help your club obtain a copy of its registration records.
What a deletion keeps. When a player, a household, or an account is deleted, we keep payment records (amounts, dates, and Stripe's and our identifiers), evaluation scores, and records of changes, with the person replaced by a random reference and free text removed. These no longer carry a name, but their identifiers still match your club's records at Stripe. A whole-club deletion keeps none of them, only a record that the deletion happened, with no personal information.
What a deletion does not reach. Stripe's records of the charges, refunds, and payment pages on your club's Stripe account; anything your club copied out of Callback, such as exports, emails, printed sheets, or its own HubSpot; rows in your club's tryout workbook or linked Google Sheet, which return at the next publish or sync unless your club removes them there; ratings and notes already on evaluators' devices, and those devices' backups (ratings a device sends for a deleted player afterwards are discarded); league team names and team coach contacts, until your club changes them; feedback filed in our GitHub repository; our service logs, until they expire; our database backups, which roll off after about five weeks, and any older backup copies until we remove them; and our development copies (see the privacy policy).
The following provisions survive any termination or expiration of these Terms: Section 4 (Your club's content and data, including the license grant), Section 5A (Taking registrations and lesson payments), Section 7 (Intellectual property), Section 8 (Feedback), Section 9 (Availability, disclaimer, and limitation of liability), Section 10 (Indemnification), Section 11 (Term, termination, and deletion), Section 13 (Governing law and disputes), Section 14 (Miscellaneous), and Annex A while we hold any of your club's personal information, together with any other provisions that by their nature are intended to survive.
12. Changes to these Terms
We may update these Terms as the product and the law evolve. Each version carries a version identifier and date. We keep a copy of each version we publish. If we make material changes, we will post the updated Terms here with a new version and date, we will email your club's administrators at least 30 days before a material change takes effect, and the Callback website asks each administrator to review and accept the updated Terms the next time they sign in there. Your club's administrators also accept these Terms, and acknowledge the privacy policy, the first time they sign in to the Callback website. Continued use after an update takes effect means your club accepts the updated Terms; if your club does not accept them, its remedy is to stop using the service and cancel.
13. Governing law and disputes
These Terms are governed by the laws of the State of Arizona, without regard to its conflict-of-laws rules. The parties agree that any dispute arising out of or relating to these Terms or the service will be resolved in Maricopa County, Arizona, and each party consents to that venue. If any provision of these Terms is held unenforceable, the rest remain in effect.
14. Miscellaneous
These Terms constitute the entire agreement between the parties with respect to the subject matter hereof and supersede all prior or contemporaneous agreements, representations, warranties, and understandings, whether written or oral.
No failure or delay by either party in exercising any right under these Terms will constitute a waiver of that right. Any waiver must be in writing and signed by the waiving party to be effective.
You may not assign or transfer these Terms, or any rights or obligations hereunder, without our prior written consent. We may assign these Terms without restriction. Any attempted assignment in violation of this provision is void.
Nothing in these Terms creates any partnership, joint venture, employment, or agency relationship between the parties. Neither party has authority to bind the other.
Notices under these Terms may be given by email: to the email address associated with your club administrator account (for notices to you) or to support@mckerinsoftware.com (for notices to us). Notices are deemed given when sent.
If any provision of these Terms is held to be invalid or unenforceable, the remaining provisions will continue in full force and effect, and the invalid provision will be modified to the minimum extent necessary to make it valid and enforceable.
15. Contact
Annex A. Data processing addendum
This annex is part of these Terms. It applies to the personal information Callback processes on your club's behalf under Section 5 ("club personal information"). It does not apply to the family account, which Callback holds as its own data (Section 5).
- Subject matter. Callback processes club personal information to provide the modules your club uses, for as long as your club uses them and until it is deleted under Section 11. It concerns your club's users (administrators, evaluators, coaches, and scorekeepers), players (including minors), their parents and guardians, households, and the people named as emergency contacts, partners, or team coaches. It includes names, contact details, dates of birth, medical notes that families choose to give, registrations and their answers, waiver signatures, lesson bookings and balances, evaluations, league rosters, and payment records.
- Your club's instructions. Callback processes club personal information only to provide and support the service under these Terms, as your club directs through its use of the service and its settings, and as the law requires. Callback does not sell it, use it for advertising, or use it for any other club, except to show totals across clubs with no names on our website.
- Confidentiality. Callback limits access to club personal information to the people who need it to operate and support the service, and they must keep it confidential.
- Security. Callback hosts the service on Amazon Web Services in the United States. Club personal information is encrypted at rest and in transit over the web (HTTPS); email is sent encrypted when the receiving mail server supports it. Sign-in is through Amazon Cognito, and your club's staff can turn on two-step sign-in with an authenticator app. The service checks each signed-in request: club users by their role at your club, and families by the players and households they have been given access to; the public pages described in the privacy policy need no sign-in. Clubs' information is kept apart by our software, in a shared database. Callback staff with platform administrator access, given by hand, can open every club's information; changes they make through the app are recorded in part, and what they read is not. The database is backed up for recovery.
- Subprocessors. Callback uses these service providers to process club personal information: Amazon Web Services (hosting, database, sign-in, file storage, and email delivery); Stripe (payments, on your club's own Stripe account, and Callback's billing of your club); GitHub Enterprise (feedback and screenshots that users choose to send us); Google (the service account that reads a Google Sheet your club shares with us); Microsoft (our email, for messages sent to our support address); and Anthropic (an AI assistant our staff use to operate the service, which can process club personal information when staff use it for that work). Services your club connects itself, such as its own HubSpot account, its Google Sheet, or Sprocket, are your club's providers, not Callback's; Callback sends data to them or reads from them at your club's direction. We will update this list before we add a subprocessor. This list was last updated on October 6, 2026.
- Requests from individuals. Your club can view players and households and delete them in the service; families can correct the households and players they entered, and a club that uses Lessons can also correct them in its Lessons administration. If Callback receives a request about club personal information, we will refer it to your club, and we will help your club respond to requests it cannot handle in the service itself.
- Security incidents. If Callback learns that club personal information was accessed or disclosed without authorization, Callback will tell your club without undue delay, with the information it reasonably can, and will take reasonable steps to contain it.
- Deletion. At the end, Callback deletes club personal information as Section 11 describes; Section 11 also lists what is kept and what a deletion does not reach.